the_ragnarok (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
the_ragnarok) wrote2018-12-09 01:59 pm
the_ragnarok) wrote2018-12-09 01:59 pm
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this concept has been conceived by takiki16 and ![[tumblr.com profile]](https://www.tumblr.com/favicon.ico)
bemusedlybespectacled, then i squeed about it a bunch with findundergrounddragoutofwater and, well.
so basically the idea is that in the D/s au there's this division - in the original concept it was only a thing for super rich americans, butfindundergrounddragoutofwater and i expanded it to be a general society thing - where subs are divided to upstairs and downstairs subs.
upstairs subs are pretty. they are decorative and highly mannered and presentable. they are status symbols.
downstairs subs take the heavy punishment and do the heavy labor. they are the ones who get shared with other doms/households. they can serve as whipping boys/girls for upstairs subs.
if going for the wider-society thing, one can postulate subs who are sort of "in between", ones that became more common with the rise of the middle class - stairwell subs, who do white collar jobs.
to get fandom-specific, the original idea contained some nice Leverage headcanons, centralizing on downstairs sub Eliot who has strongly internalized the upstairs/downstairs division - of course he's the one who'll take the punishment, would it be better to let some pretty, delicate upstairs sub take it instead of him? and please let us consider: some upstairs sub catching Eliot's eye before he's about to be punished, the upstairs sub looking concerned if not horrified, and Eliot smiling to set them at ease.
other leverage character headcanons include Hardison who believes all subs should be upstairs subs; Parker who often goes undercover as an upstairs sub, but has a lot of experiences with doms treating her like a downstairs sub; and nonsexual mommy dom Sophie. and stairwell sub Nate.
for POI, there is a plethora of possible readings: John of course sees himself as a downstairs sub in a way very similar to Eliot. Harold can be a dom, or a stairwell sub, or made to be an upstairs sub and going slowly insane with boredom. (He can organize parties and pick nice outfits with the best of them!)
another thought we had was - upstairs subs are not supposed to have sex with anyone but their dom, they don't get shared, but they might have nonsexual romance with other upstairs subs and have that treated as cute and nonthreatening. So upstairs sub harold having courtly love with Grace, the upstairs sub from next door - consider john going on hands and knees so Harold can climb over him and kiss Grace through a window.
takiki16 and so basically the idea is that in the D/s au there's this division - in the original concept it was only a thing for super rich americans, but
upstairs subs are pretty. they are decorative and highly mannered and presentable. they are status symbols.
downstairs subs take the heavy punishment and do the heavy labor. they are the ones who get shared with other doms/households. they can serve as whipping boys/girls for upstairs subs.
if going for the wider-society thing, one can postulate subs who are sort of "in between", ones that became more common with the rise of the middle class - stairwell subs, who do white collar jobs.
to get fandom-specific, the original idea contained some nice Leverage headcanons, centralizing on downstairs sub Eliot who has strongly internalized the upstairs/downstairs division - of course he's the one who'll take the punishment, would it be better to let some pretty, delicate upstairs sub take it instead of him? and please let us consider: some upstairs sub catching Eliot's eye before he's about to be punished, the upstairs sub looking concerned if not horrified, and Eliot smiling to set them at ease.
other leverage character headcanons include Hardison who believes all subs should be upstairs subs; Parker who often goes undercover as an upstairs sub, but has a lot of experiences with doms treating her like a downstairs sub; and nonsexual mommy dom Sophie. and stairwell sub Nate.
for POI, there is a plethora of possible readings: John of course sees himself as a downstairs sub in a way very similar to Eliot. Harold can be a dom, or a stairwell sub, or made to be an upstairs sub and going slowly insane with boredom. (He can organize parties and pick nice outfits with the best of them!)
another thought we had was - upstairs subs are not supposed to have sex with anyone but their dom, they don't get shared, but they might have nonsexual romance with other upstairs subs and have that treated as cute and nonthreatening. So upstairs sub harold having courtly love with Grace, the upstairs sub from next door - consider john going on hands and knees so Harold can climb over him and kiss Grace through a window.
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I think
If you conceive of this system as being a universal sub-class system that subs could use to express identity, rather than a way for a few rich abusive doms to divide a private harem, I was thinking that it is less about subs being *trained* into a category, and more about categories that sub eventually end up in as a result of their own kink and play preferences?
(although please subject this to as many darker interpretations as you want, where the dom controls more in categorization because i am a dumpster fire of angst)
Like...as subs begin the growing up process in this BDSM AU, and start actually coming of age in terms of puberty and sex and learning about play, they will eventually end up in one category or another by their preferences. Subs who become upstairs subs tend to prefer play that puts them at the center of positive romantic control and attention. They want to sleep IN the bed, rather than at the foot or on the floor. They generally do not prefer long periods of denial, or intense pain/impact play. If painplay or more intense kink is involved, their dom is right there with them at every step, whispering sweet nothings and telling them how cute and pretty and lovely they are. Think sugar baby rather than footstool, lapdog vs. guard dog.
Downstairs subs tend to correlate more with play that proves how much they can take for their dom, if that makes sense? Downstairs subs more commonly have humiliation or objectification kinks. They're the ones sleeping on the floor or at the foot of the bed, the one kneeling beside the chair in a dungeon rather than sitting in their dom's lap. Doms can be affectionate with their downstairs sub, but its less constant sweet fluff and more a firm hand at the end of a scene and a significant "good job, you did so well for me, let's go clean up." A lot more service subbing in the actual service (manual labor) sense, more likelihood of service topping or bottoming for an upstairs sub at a dom's orders.
Depending on region and culture and other things, subs are generally expected to have "chosen" or gravitated to upstairs/downstairs by a certain age, and reflect that in their body language so other subs and doms know how to be polite with them. Subs who do not choose are generally stigmatized as spinsters who cannot get doms to play with them for a variety of reasons
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also consider: subs who can't neatly be categorized. hard masochists who hate humiliation! disabled hard masochists who can't do the physical service expected of downstairs subs! a sadist sub who aims to be upstairs in hopes she'll be allowed to hurt the downstairs subs?
also i am forever stuck on a downstairs sub whose main kink is self-sacrifice in favor of upstairs subs. yes i will harp on this forever.
also also also i am Here for spinster subs.
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I think in this universe there are plenty of subs who don't want to conform to the binaries or systems available for them? (which brings us back to the population demographics of more subs than doms). Depending on what (if any) role gender and class stereotypes play, I can see very status-concerned parents pushing their sub child to be an upstairs sub, to see certain kinks and certain styles of dom as positive and others as negative. (Would kinkshaming exist in this universe, where EVERYTHING is kinky?). And then the child dutifully goes along, and ends up as a pampered upstairs sub on the arm of some millionaire, stifled and unfulfilled and maybe wanting the catharsis of effort and service in a different way.
Or, alternatively, a downstairs sub who's been beaten and pushed around because they look big and strong and can take it, but they secretly want to be done up in silk and lace and treated like a princess.
And maybe it wouldn't be unheard of in this universe for a sub to switch floors, although it's not common? Something more permanent than an upstairs sub getting "sent downstairs" for downstairs subs to play with as a punishment. I'm imagining more progressive-ish romcoms about upstairs subs who take a stroll on the "wild side," and decide to be downstairs subs, or downstairs subs who Just Want A Little More From Life, and hallmark channel their way into being upstairs subs for a rich and handsom dom. But in reality, when your sub Aunt Karen decides to have a midlife crisis and change floors, it's a little jarring and maybe embarrassing (depending on your neighborhood) for the family.
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also mb there's social pressure, if you're an old enough sub and you haven't found a dom, to switch floors in hopes of better luck?
i wonder about stereotypes. like how ageism impacts stereotypes - if you're older, does that mean you're likelier to be seen as upstairs bc you're more frail and can't handle downstairs? or as downstairs, bc you're perceived as less presentable? maybe older subs are all pushed into the stairwell. or the attic.
ooh, another concept that
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Re: ageism: in a society where the central integer is power exchange, I can see ageism maybe mattering a little bit less in terms of classification? Like...older subs are generally expected to kneel less, do less intense play across the board cuz physical things. But an old sub who has been downstairs all their life will still be a downstairs sub in terms of the etiquette people use with them, and in terms of their relationship with their dom. But maybe instead of kneeling on the floor in a club, their dom would pull up a chair so they can sit quietly, head down behind their dom.
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Also with respect to aging now having images of elderly upstairs subs, all still perfect fashion and poise like you see in some irl photos etc...
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People getting rude comments like 'what do you even do in bed??' or 'when are you going to get a real relationship', or implications that your partner must be suppressing their needs and you're wronging them.
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If a dom has both an upstairs sub and a downstairs sub with them, frex, it would be socially acceptable for another dom to come up and speak a little bit with the upstairs sub a bit, remark on how cute and pretty they are (always subject to their dom's rules, of course). It would NOT be okay for the other dom to try and touch the upstairs sub (other than little things like chucking them under the chin or kissing their hand), or to play with them or discipline them. Upstairs subs are traditionally Not For Sharing.
Downstairs subs, on the other hand, are traditionally For Sharing, if sharing is happening. Dom A, approaching Dom B who has an upstairs and a downstairs sub with them, would consider it good etiquette not to notice the downstairs sub at all unless its in terms of "bring me another glass," or Dom B saying "you can use their mouth if you want." And then there is my BULLETPROOF kink, which is that downstairs subs are whipping boys for upstairs ones. So if there is any kind of honor code protocol where mistakes are made, and now for some reason I, another dom, get to punish one of your subs, the downstairs one is the one everyone expects to get belted.
(I'm envisioning a lot of historical romances where the villainous dom kidnaps the upstairs sub, and the social taboo being broken is part of the villainy. Also imagining a lot of sub/sub romance stories between upstairs and downstairs, where the whipping boy aspect being over-used by the dom creates a lot of the nobility and the dramatic angst)
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Talking through the worldbuilding and all I had def been thinking of this as a social place thing rather than an identity/preference thing (which doesn't mean the second thing is any less of a valid thing to go into etc!). But now thinking about like - that verse in modern times and some subs in some areas totally starting to somewhat *engage with it* as an identity/preference thing.
And then like - people who don't fit into the binary, like other people were saying, and also in more societal ways - hard masochists who want to be secretaries, someone who wants to do manual labor but then come home and be pampered... And some places being more accepting and some being all 'no you can't be that way', and the defaults still affecting people even in more accepting places.
And then other people being like 'how dare you use these oppressive categories as 'fun' identities' or 'you're wasting time arguing about that when instead we should be focused on domism and how doms are still keeping us out of all these *other* jobs and things'.
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I swear i should have checked cross-usernames and realized that before
iF YOU ARE SEEING ANYTHING SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN, I have cribbed an embarrassing amount of your worldbuilding in my own D/S fantasies for other fandoms, and i am glad you are here, for any iteration whatsoever of D/S systems
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Yeah, it's me. And I don't think I wrote the usename thing anywhere (and no worries even if I had!)
Aw, eee! Omg! Thank you! Thank you for saying! (And, um, would totally be interested in checking these things out, if you have them around!)
Eee :D
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But figuring out both of them is super fun, and I like your idea that there is a more modern movement to take the social-place staircase system and view it as an identity-choice system.